tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post1334338609002434064..comments2023-12-02T06:33:50.847-08:00Comments on Notes from a Common-place Book: The Eastern Schism: A Study of the Papacy and the Eastern Churches during the Eleventh and Twelfth Centuries by Steven RuncimanTerry (John)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07523479530843509695noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-13765735830072584582011-06-14T21:17:53.422-07:002011-06-14T21:17:53.422-07:00Nice summary. I recall reading somewhere that the ...Nice summary. I recall reading somewhere that the "schism" was more over praxis than dogma, ie., azymes, beards, liturgics etc. Praxis in the East was the participatory action of the life of the Church which included laity. One can point to 1054, but without the internet I'm sure that the consequences of the papal bull had little effect on the general populations of either East or West. History is always more nuanced than a two page chapter in a survey of (whatever) book.Steve Robinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04319784922747041297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-33053129353235576452011-06-14T20:42:48.895-07:002011-06-14T20:42:48.895-07:00You are right about that: I have been to Roman mas...You are right about that: I have been to Roman masses many times, and the feeling is that it is a spectator affair and not something one really participates in.Milton T. Burtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01063079657696373189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-39934907042467935702011-06-14T07:26:22.465-07:002011-06-14T07:26:22.465-07:00JtT,
Actually, I thought his treatment very even-h...JtT,<br />Actually, I thought his treatment very even-handed. Case in point would be the last paragraph I quoted. From the Orthodox perspective, some of the personalities one would expect to be somewhat demonized, were actually treated quite favorably. At the time he wrote (1955), scholarship had been so one-sided in the other direction for so long, that Runciman's treatment was seen as a radical reappraisal. Since that time, there has been a sea change in the area of Byzantine Studies, and his work is seen as pretty mainstream these days. <br /><br />Milton,<br />Actually there were only 4 in the East; 5 total, but your point is correct. Language differences and the logistical difficulties in maintaining communication played a critical part as well. One distinction Runciman makes clear is that in the East there was a literate laity that saw themselves as full participants in the Liturgy and overall life of the Church, as opposed to the West, where illiteracy was the norm, and the Latin Mass was often largely unintelligible. And the East had no problem with the Bishop of Rome's supremacy in the western Europe. The rub came when he turned his gaze eastward.Terry (John)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07523479530843509695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-62470170010916663842011-06-13T22:17:21.544-07:002011-06-13T22:17:21.544-07:00I think too that the fact that there were five tru...I think too that the fact that there were five truly metropolitan cities in the East and only one---Rome itself---in the West had a great deal to do with the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome in western Europe.Milton T. Burtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01063079657696373189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-11894523592218673242011-06-13T19:36:32.612-07:002011-06-13T19:36:32.612-07:00Not to be the skunk at the party or anything, but ...Not to be the skunk at the party or anything, but Runciman's account seems so favorably one-sided (in a nice way), that I hesitate to ask whether he had an axe to grind with respect to Rome? Any indications of his degree of impartiality from other scholars?James the Thickheadedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11128470567186118742noreply@blogger.com