tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post114261738220033234..comments2023-12-02T06:33:50.847-08:00Comments on Notes from a Common-place Book: On the Road—Part 4Terry (John)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07523479530843509695noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-1143479892493301892006-03-27T09:18:00.000-08:002006-03-27T09:18:00.000-08:00John, Earlier today I found that on Google video, ...John, <BR/>Earlier today I found that on Google video, there is a 29 minute (or so) documentary on the state of Orthodoxy in Bulgaria. It might be of interest to you and your readers.<BR/>One can find it by typing in Google Video "Orthodox Church" in the search function.<BR/>Best,<BR/>Michaelk BorussiaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-1142878640382608142006-03-20T10:17:00.000-08:002006-03-20T10:17:00.000-08:00John - To be fair, I left the RM before I had read...John - <BR/><BR/>To be fair, I left the RM before I had read St. Ignatius. As a young adult I was received into the ECUSA. Part of this move was based on a long-held disbelief in what I was taught in Sunday School about Roman Catholics not being 'real' Christians (something Campbell would not have asserted, I think).<BR/><BR/>So I moved to a more historically grounded way of worship and understanding; but I had not grasped the ecclesiological part, the ontological (a couple of two-bit words here) connection of the Church with her Lord and its implications for unity and continuity.<BR/><BR/>When I finally had to decide to part communion with the ECUSA, I went back to reinvestigate my roots (reading a great deal of the Millenial Harbinger), the roots of Anglicanism, investigated the claims of the RCC, tried to grasp an understanding of the Eastern Rite Catholics (Maronite, Melkite, Ruthenian, Coptic Catholic, etc.) and the Orthodox Church.<BR/><BR/>When I was in Jr. High, our pastor thought a good Wednesday night program for the whole congregation would be to watch the films series that were companions to the book entitled "How Shall We Then Live" by Schaeffer (Sr.). While I was too young and distracted to fully engage the material, it had some important effects on me as well.<BR/><BR/>Some RM folks are being honest about the history of the movement:<BR/><BR/>http://www.edwardfudge.com/written/restmvmnttext.html<BR/><BR/>But are yet unwilling to take the next step in seeing what I might call the mystical union of the Church and her Lord and to accept the teachings of, at the very least, the fathers up through the Nicea-Constantiople period (at which point the NT Canon was basically settled).<BR/><BR/>For my part - and if I am wrong God forgive me - I think it nearly impossible to fairly separate the NT from the faith of the Fathers that brought it to us. It becomes a distorted faith. As St. Basil said so eloquently (c. 374 AD):<BR/><BR/>"Concerning the teachings of the Church, whether publicly proclaimed (kerygma) or reserved to members of the household of faith (dogmata), we have received some from written sources, while others have been given to us secretly, through apostolic tradition. Both sources have equal force in true religion. No one would deny either source -- no one, at any rate, who is even slightly familiar with the ordinances of the Church. If we attacked unwritten customs, claiming them to be of little importance, we would fatally mutilate the Gospel, no matter what our intentions -- or rather would reduce the Gospel teachings to bare words . . .”Hilariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05702731902033210478noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-1142735946784128612006-03-18T18:39:00.000-08:002006-03-18T18:39:00.000-08:00I find this interesting--3 guys either out--or on ...I find this interesting--3 guys either out--or on their way out--of RM churches,and all influenced to do so by St. Ignatius.<BR/><BR/>Hilarius: <BR/><BR/>This sort of thing was just never discussed in Churches of Christ. We viewed ourselves as being above any history; there was no need to study what anybody said in the 2nd or 3rd century, since we had the "blueprint" of the New Testament to go back to. Being a history major, I often tried to bring this sort of thing into class discussions and such. Let's just say that the reception was "cool." For all our talk of "restoring" the New Testament church, our cutting-off of the Church Fathers and the saints and martyrs of the early centuries just left a big, big hole. It never felt right.<BR/><BR/>And yes--I agree completely about St. Ignatius' emphasis on the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Ihe ironic thing is that here is this first century bishop, on his way to martyrdom, warning the faithful to avoid those who denied tbe real presence. Whereas today, the RM churches (and most all Prots, I suppose) would deny without question the real presence, but would see Ignatius's role as bishop as being some sort of heretical development. Strange.Terry (John)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07523479530843509695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-1142702375903787072006-03-18T09:19:00.000-08:002006-03-18T09:19:00.000-08:00yeah, it was ignatius that ruined me for ever rema...yeah, it was ignatius that ruined me for ever remaining long-term in the churches of christ. how funny that he had a similar effect on you.Jared Cramerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01665647940543562091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18762198.post-1142642685597412572006-03-17T16:44:00.000-08:002006-03-17T16:44:00.000-08:00John:I had a similar experience on reading St. Ign...John:<BR/><BR/>I had a similar experience on reading St. Ignatius of Antioch's 7 letters. I wondered, why was this not discussed in our [Restoration Movement] congregations?<BR/><BR/>The thing that struck me most was the emphasis St. Ignatius places on the centrality of the belief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and the Eucharistic role of the Bishop and Presbyters; and all effectively, as you note, in First Century Christianity!<BR/><BR/>Thank you for sharing your story - good post!Hilariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05702731902033210478noreply@blogger.com